Comments on: How to screw up Races in AD&D! /blog/screw-races-add/ Tabletop games and adventures Wed, 29 May 2019 09:58:01 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.4.2 By: Fantell /blog/screw-races-add/#comment-2438 Wed, 29 May 2019 09:58:01 +0000 http://www.failsquadgames.com/?p=939#comment-2438 Yea, Level 9 was a career ending level most of the time. Very hard to work past that, though I still have Fantell Lightbringer (AD&D 2nd ed caster) who, upon achieving level 9, starting turning his and his parties entire fortune into magical items, because that’s just what you do at that level. He retired from active adventuring on the cusp of level 10 somewhere, and has since reached level 12 in his semi-retirement.

He has been on a few big adventures since then, sometimes because it was necessary for the kingdom at large, other times because he just needed to get some magical bauble or ingredient that was otherwise unobtainable, but mostly he spends his time taking commission on the manufacture of magical goods for those who prove themselves good and true, which has been his main source of income and XP for the last two levels.

To bring this back to being relevant, this was 2nd edition, and he reached level 9 while most of the party was around level 7, and continued to adventure with them until they also retired into what had, at that point, become Fantell’s duchy. This took somewhere around a year of VERY regular play. We all lived in one house, as students, and this is what we did by candlelight for hours at a time, whenever there was a night that none of us had late classes. There were deaths; I remember several characters that didn’t make it, such as the cowardly cleric we all called yellow-belly, a large Immortal Nubian fighter who went down in a hail of spears finally proving he wasn’t, in fact, immortal, a Bard who saved us from the siren song of a Harpy only to die to the poisoned talons of its pack-sister that same day. There are other deaths, some ignoble, but all memorable, and throughout all of that, I don’t remember anyone, ever, reaching maximum racial levels and wanting to retire a character.

In the end the surviving party consisted of a Half-Elf Ranger, a Barbarian (possibly a fighter on paper, or something from a supplement that the GM allowed, I really don’t know), a Paladin, a Halfling Fighter/Thief, and a Dwarven Fighter/Thief. as a side note, I specifically remember The Dwarf had his lowest stat in Dex. A 10, with a Con of 19 and a Cha of 17 to boot. Used to think it was a weird combination, with such a low Dex, but he maxed lock-picking and F/R Traps, ignored every other skill, and told everyone he was a toy maker who specialized in puzzle-boxes. that meant his Max level as a Thief was the minimum of 12. he never got close. The Halfling did, but even after everything, he barely scraped level 8 as a Fighter, let alone the level limit of 9. Not sure he even managed to 8, in the end.

Point is, the question of max level never came up. for either of them. It is, still to this day, inconceivable that anyone could really get there, because you effectively cap at level 9. the only classes to gain at this point are spellcasters. They get higher level spells. IF they have a high enough spellcasting stat.

so we have a game where any class can level to the vaulted level of 9, which is where they generally retire, because while the monsters get stronger and the threats bigger past that level, the player characters do not. At that point, you play simply because you like the character, as I did, or because it matters to the gameworld you and your DM have shaped, as it did when I continued to play my Mage.

I should note that The ONLY race/class combo to not make it to level 9 is halfling cleric. the only other level limits below ten are again the halfling, this time in fighter, the gnome cleric, and the half-elf druid. that means any other allowable combo can reach level 10, without even needing the boost to the limit from having a high prime requisite.

So yes, in answer to the overall question of do I play with level limits on. But then, I ALSO play with weapon type vs armor modifiers. Because that way the cost vs AC of the different armors actually make sense.

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By: Lloyd Metcalf (FSG) /blog/screw-races-add/#comment-1688 Wed, 11 Apr 2018 13:15:37 +0000 http://www.failsquadgames.com/?p=939#comment-1688 In reply to Chris.

Not a bad solution. It can be a little disheartening when you realize, “I just peaked….”
After playing and talking with the old school guys a while, I get the impression that even getting beyond level 8-10 was pretty rare.

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By: Chris /blog/screw-races-add/#comment-1649 Tue, 27 Mar 2018 19:52:44 +0000 http://www.failsquadgames.com/?p=939#comment-1649 To keep a balance in the game as intended but also not have the human players run away in HP and other “perks” I instituted a rule by which the non-human experience points were halved up to the maximum obtainable level with a good prime requisite. After that their experience points were then quartered. This made it seem as if the unobtainable was, eventually, obtainable and retained the original balance intended by the designer (EGG). At the same time it appeased the player that they were not going to be stuck with a level 4 1/2 orc cleric forever (instead they would top out at level 6 when everyone else was 8 to 12). I found this solution worked without the above mentioned “spiraling out of control” power imbalance.

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By: Fail Squad Games /blog/screw-races-add/#comment-696 Mon, 20 Feb 2017 04:29:28 +0000 http://www.failsquadgames.com/?p=939#comment-696 In reply to Wayne Van Stanley.

That is a very valid question. I suppose there are plenty of folks in the world who pray to various gods without becoming clerics though.
If you think about it though, a Level 9 Dwarf Fighter (Max) isn’t much different than a level 12 human fighter (Who just gets 3hp / level beyond 9)
In 1e it’s tough to survive into that range. There’s a lot of save or die rolls!

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By: Wayne Van Stanley /blog/screw-races-add/#comment-695 Sun, 19 Feb 2017 18:14:46 +0000 http://www.failsquadgames.com/?p=939#comment-695 I play 1e to this day and except for letting all races be allowed to chose cleric (why have Demi-human and Humanoid gods, then?), I follow the tables/limitations closely.

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By: Fail Squad Games /blog/screw-races-add/#comment-693 Thu, 16 Feb 2017 16:51:33 +0000 http://www.failsquadgames.com/?p=939#comment-693 In reply to Rachael.

I have really only hit that level 9 stage once or twice in all the years I’ve played. It seems that 6 is about my doom. lol
I always wince when I see young players come to a con and show me thier 2E character sheet with their 29th level – whatever.

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By: Rachael /blog/screw-races-add/#comment-692 Thu, 16 Feb 2017 03:17:44 +0000 http://www.failsquadgames.com/?p=939#comment-692 Just like humans at one time could not do the 4-minute mile and now many can. (not me but others)

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By: Rachael /blog/screw-races-add/#comment-691 Thu, 16 Feb 2017 03:16:45 +0000 http://www.failsquadgames.com/?p=939#comment-691 I always took racial level limits as a status of events. Meaning that once you reached that level limit it too twice as much XP & training time to get to the new level. Once that a given race’s class reached a new level the level limit for that race was raised by one. So while most campaigns did not last long enough to make these changes several did and as of this minute PCs can be Lizard Men Magic-users up to level 5, Gnomes can be Monks up to level 4 and Elves have gained two levels in Magic-user.

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By: Fail Squad Games /blog/screw-races-add/#comment-682 Tue, 14 Feb 2017 02:57:51 +0000 http://www.failsquadgames.com/?p=939#comment-682 We have tinkered with solutions. It isn’t all perfect, but it’s a good stab at it for the first game of its’ kind.

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By: Ripper X /blog/screw-races-add/#comment-681 Mon, 13 Feb 2017 23:47:48 +0000 http://www.failsquadgames.com/?p=939#comment-681 There is short term gain and long term gain. I have a love/hate relationship with the racial system, but you are right, it has to be in place for the game to function long term. It doesn’t always make logical sense, especially if you want more of a Tolkien feel.

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